Cowlip's intentions about Brian and Justin

[nightvision55.livejournal.com]

Hi, this is the first time I've posted here so please forgive any mistakes ...

I was just wondering; in the UK original, the focus of the series was the Brian/Michael relationship, and they were the ones who ended up together. So, did Cowlip originally intend that in the US version, and did they just go with the Brian/Justin pairing because they realised how hot the chemistry between Gale and Randy was?

Does anybody know?

Comments

[nightvision55.livejournal.com]

I thought that was probably the case - I wonder if they meant to let Justin die at the end of the first series and go on from there?
Thank God they didn't, though ... it kind of worked in the original, but Brian/Michael is just too horrible to contemplate (shudder!)

[bigdogz09.livejournal.com]

I don't know their original intend, but fans were so horrified by the ending that riots broke out all over the world... okay, maybe the riots didn't happen. ;)

BUT, there was an interview with Cowlip that was done last year (maybe 2 years ago). The producers said that they don't know why people thought that B/J weren't going to continue seeing each other. It was heavily implied in the interview that B/J were an unique, special couple and could possibly go the distance. Or so it seemed, to most that read the interview. I can't remember if they definitely said 'yes' that they would end up together or not.

A link to the interview was here on this website, but I can't who the interviewer was.

Manybe there's a link or someone's may remember who did the interview.

All the best.

[soulmatejunkee.livejournal.com]

Here's the interview: http://bjfic.livejournal.com/2528384.html?thread=16147584

I would love to know what the original plan was and why it was changed, because I'm sure that they had B/M in mind, since they totally copied the UK version.

[nightvision55.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the link - I'll check it out

[nightvision55.livejournal.com]

Mmm. Not too sure I buy that ... I remember reading that the series finale was to have ended with another blond boy stepping off the pavement on Liberty like Justin did in the first episode, which to me would have implied that he was nothing special at all ...

I'm glad they didn't go with that, because the ending was crap enough as it was.

[balrogtweety.livejournal.com]

If you have the DVD's of Season 5, I think it shows that little episode in the Season Finale in the extended scenes. It's called "New Kid on the Block".

I'm glad they didn't put that in the show because the way Cowlip ended it made it feel like Justin would return.

[ipitydaf00l.livejournal.com]

I was told many different takes on that when I first got into QAF. (Way after the series ended.) Some thought that the "new" boy was supposed to show how everything sort of repeats, there's a new kid in town coming out just like Justin did all those years ago. Not that they were linking it to Brian, just that there will always been new comers, etc.

I watched the final episode once, and couldn't do it again. I can't even watch clips that people linked together that showcase parts of that episode. I'm weak in that way because I thought it was so stupid for Justin to just rush off to New York to start an art career especially when he never bothered to finish his degree. (Sort of like those that race off to California with hopes of becoming a star then doing nothing but working dead-end jobs for years before realizing it wasn't going to happen.)

I've also been told that I should start with that episode and work my way backwards and it would give me a different take. *shrugs* Either way, the ending is what drove me out to find fanfic because I couldn't live with it.

[amelialourdes.livejournal.com]

Just a note that hindsight is 20/20 for Cowlip who absolutely made sure that everyone knew at the end of the series that they fully intended to break up Brian and Justin and deprive fans rooting for their happy ending. I have no idea why they said otherwise in this interview other than to appease the interviewer and the people who were hanging on to this notion. But by the end of the show (in another interview) and in another interview with one of the writers, they made it perfectly clear what their intention was both on screen and off.

Evidence and a discussion of this here (http://amelialourdes.livejournal.com/457283.html).

And to briefly answer your question -- yes! Not really about chemistry but popularity of the pairing, I imagine. QaF UK worked that story for them and QaF US translated into something else entirely.

[mmmorpheusq.livejournal.com]

I watched QAF from Day One in real time, and I also remember that Cowlip ORIGINALLY intended to break up Brian and Justin at the end. One theory (which I believe) is that Cowlip was disappointed that their biggest fanbase was hetero females, and they intended "one in the eye" to us, by setting up the fake marriage storyline.

They made it fairly clear in the very beginning that Hal/Michael was intended to be the star. I'm sure Hal thought so too, which could explain some of his later bitterness toward Gale.

Revisionist history is what I call Cowlips' later rationalizations.

[highd.livejournal.com]

QAF uk's story worked so well because Stuart's family wasn't the horror show that Brian's was. So he didn't need Vince the way that Brian needed Michael. It was quite clear that Stuart and Vince were pretty sewn up by the time we met them. Vince was entrenched in Stuart's life, in a very solid way. Not the way Brian and Michael where. Brian and Michael were brothers, not fated, waiting for the time to be right, lovers to be.

Cowlip had cameras and writers, if they wanted us to feel like Brian and Justin were still together they could have conveyed that instead of feeding us "it's only time" and fading Justin away like he never existed. I mean seriously how dumb do they think we are?

[gaedhal.livejournal.com]

They have certainly changed their tune in the years
since the show ended, whether people want to believe
it or not. But the show is what it is and the ending
what it is. It's always up to debate and interpretation --
and fanfic.

[bigdogz09.livejournal.com]

I just read the 2006 interview and I'm glad that Cowlip backpeddled in the 2010 interview. And well they should! They should kiss my incredibly, large ass and beg for forgiveness.

That's right boys, say you're sorry and bend over. Jackasses...

Time for merlot.

[ryosato.livejournal.com]

It's never been stated, but it makes sense that from season 2 and on it's far more Brian/Justin, because the writers in the original season were the same as the UK version. But due to Canada's laws on employing a certain percentage of Canadian people if you're working up there (or something, I don't know the details lol) they had to fire most of them and get a totally new writing group from Canada. From there, they decided to continue to change things and move on in a new direction.

Although, I'd say they knew there were people that liked both, because they never COMPLETELY deny the Brian/Michael thing. I mean, even in the last season, which IMO was weird all around. XD

[highd.livejournal.com]

The Brian Michael thing was dealt with in season 2 episode 12. Anyone that thinks there was more after that are reaching at best. Even when Brian was dragging Michael around during the first part of season 3 it was obvious that Michael wanted to be home with Ben and not be out watching Brian at underwear parties.

[ryosato.livejournal.com]

I'm not gonna get into a big fandom argument about how to read the show. ;) All I'm saying is, they left in plenty of moments for Brian/Michael fans to keep them watching. And hey, reaching? Brian calls him "the love of his life" and no matter how you feel about that or if you think he was joking or whatever, when lines like that are in a show it gives fans the opportunity to decide what they think it meant for the character. That's what makes fandom fun; we can all read the same moments in completely different ways. :)

[gaedhal.livejournal.com]

The writers in Season 1 were NOT the same as the British
version. Russell Davies wrote all of the eps for both
British series and nothing of the US version, although
he gave the template to CowLip and their writing team,
which included Jonathan Tolins, Richard Kramer, Jason
Schafer, Doug Guinan, and others, all of whom were
replaced for Season 2. Tolins was especially vocal on
why he was fired -- he famously fought with CowLip over
the direction of the show. But those writers were also
responsible for the fact that Season 1 is the most coherent
and consistent of the series.

[masterglory.livejournal.com]

I guess Qaf has began as a Brian/michael(ewwwwww and bleah) story.

It shows on the pilot, it shows about C/L declaration at the times that they recognize themselves each one in both characters ( I'd like to know which one of them was Michael,:P)

But even on the pilot (especially on it) Gale/Randy♥ chemistry was too big, too perfect, too deep and beautiful to deny it, so I guess they have had to gave up their first (pathetic) project.

To totally try to reverse this thing at the end, I mean 513 was only about Brian and Michael, a pretty sad pathetic attempt to come back to the very first minutes of the pilot, or "how to ruin a masterpiece part 1,2,3,4...etc.":(((((((( to not forget that at the end Michael is happy and fullfilled and Brian is punished taking him away his son and his love:(

The infamous "final scene" the one with "the new blonde trick under the lampost"...I've read that C/L used to have a "test group" of people to show the scenes before to be on air, and I've read that the test group pretty much said "NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!" to that.
And this shows us how much C/L both loved and hated Qaf, their own creature (it happens, yeah) because it would be the final coup de grace.

About Michael character and Hal Sparks both it would be pretty and polite for me to be silent *grin*, I guess both the actor and the character can be good to those who doesn't love like me Brian and Justin, Randy and Gale.
Duh, everybody is entitled to their tastes and opinions;)

[ipitydaf00l.livejournal.com]

Gloria, I love you. :) You have the same thoughts I do on most things. Yes, I felt the same at the end that everyone else was pretty happy while Brian lost both Justin and Gus. (Plus the whole "that's who you are" vibe Michael kept spewing when Brian was ready to give up Babylon... There was always this give and take between Michael he kept harping at Brian to change, but freaked out the minute he showed progress of changing telling him that "it wasn't right" or some b.s. similar.... I never understood that.)

I kept meaning to watch the UK version to see how things went in that series even knowing the whole storyline, but honestly? I could never have seen a Brian/Michael ending. I don't think Brian would have respected Michael at any point and only continued to do the things he did at the beginning....then later resenting Michael for just putting up with it. Michael on the other hand would probably be all starry eyed if Brian agreed to dating/living with/etc meanwhile Brian would continue on with his self-destructive behavior. Justin challenged him in that way by expecting more from him.

[heretic-x.livejournal.com]

I understand the confusion(this is not really directed towards anyone who has posted), however...B/J was the relationship Cowlip exploited to keep us watching QAF and I bought it hook, line and sinker. So I don't give a rat's behind what they said or say now about the ending or what their intentions were. ;)
ITA that Brian and Michael wasn't selling and the chemistry of Gale and Randy was undeniable. In the end, the writers did explain that Brikey love was platonic and wasn't going to be romantic love, (my aside: unless maybe it became geriatric love with impotence thrown in.) Still pisses me off the romance novel shit at the end of 5 which did seem to poke fun(and fake off) at the female fans.

[sodoesrachael.livejournal.com]

My two cents!

I've always felt like the Brian/Michael relationship could never have worked because Michael never 'pushed' Brian. For most of the show, he was the one always just saying "that's who he is" and never expecting anything more. Justin, however, was different. Even though during the infamous 'reunification' he told Brian he knew what to expect, he didn't stop pushing, he just changed his tactics a bit. ;) Justin didn't take Brian's shit as much as other members of the 'family' did, so in that aspect he was perfect for Brian. He hadn't been around during Brian's past, and though he knew the basics, he didn't let that define who Brian was as a person, which is exactly what someone in that situation needs. Justin expected more out of Brian, and though he (Brian) never *directly* stepped up and always acted like he didn't give a shit, he did. Throughout life people are constantly evolving, and Brian needed to be with someone who would let that happen, even encourage it, since he was so emotionally stunted. Justin could give him that, while Michael could not. Which is why, for me, B/J is the perfect pairing and B/M could never work.

Did that make any sense whatsoever? I hope it did. ;)

[gaedhal.livejournal.com]

It's important to say that the ending of QAF-UK was
also controversial with British fans and critics.

Davies did not want to do the second series and many
believe that he used it as a fuck you to the powers
that be (and the critics, and perhaps even the fans --
see his comments on "Torchwood" especially for his
attitude to fans). The "sci-fi/fantasy" ending was
read by many viewers as a fake-out and not necessarily
Stuart and Vince ending up together -- but more of
a "Thelma and Louise" or "Butch and Sundance" going
out with guns blazing ending. If you've seen that last
ep you'll know what I mean -- it's completely unrealistic
and more like a dream.

[vlredreign.livejournal.com]

see his comments on "Torchwood" especially for his
attitude to fans

Which is why most Torchwood fans want RTD to die in a fire. My god, if I were him, I'd hide, cause man! After Children Of Earth (which I liked, for the most part, except for the Ianto bullshit), boy, people were out with torches and pitchforks!

[highd.livejournal.com]

I call the ending of the UK version the Grease ending. The only part of the ending that felt real to me was Nathan's cell phone upgrade. :)

[bilby10.livejournal.com]

I'd love to know what CowLip's exact intentions were too. I've never read an interview where this is explicitly stated. I suspect their main intention was to re-tell the UK QAF stories in their own way, and include a few of their own (which I think they did very well in S1).

I don't know if they intended for Brian and Justin to take off the way they did. Maybe they did. In the QAF version, Nathan idiolises Stuart rather than falls in love with him. Eventually he takes over from Stuart as the king of "Liberty Ave". In S101 Justin is much softer. I don't ever get the sense that he has any intention of one day taking over the reigns from Brian. Justin sees Brian's faults from the get go, but falls in love with him anyway. IDK - I'm thinking that it maybe was intentional on CowLip's part. I also remember their comments about being careful to select a Brian and Justin that would complement one another.

The other thing I'd love to know is was Michael really meant to be the main character, or was it always meant to be Brian and Michael? To me Brian is the main character, and it kind of annoyed me, particularly in the later seasons, that CowLip always ensured that Michael had as much screen time as Brian. I would much preferred to have seen more of the other characters (Justin, for starters). I liked Michael, but he wasn't compelling enough to have had so much of the spotlight.

I suspect Hal was a yes man, and that probably paid off for him, much more than Randy's tactic of expressing his true opinions. A shame, but that is the way of the world. Yes men and women undeservedly tend to go further.