Mask & Unbearable by jans_intentions
May. 18th, 2011 06:41 am![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png)
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I'm looking for Mask & Unbearable by jans_intentions. If anyone has these...would you please PM me?
Thanks!
Edit: *blushes* I think I've opened up a can of worms with this post, but I've read some very healthy discussion going on here!
Thanks!
Edit: *blushes* I think I've opened up a can of worms with this post, but I've read some very healthy discussion going on here!
no subject
Date: 2011-05-18 11:29 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-18 12:17 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-18 05:41 pm (UTC)I don't really get slapping some other guys name in there and selling it. It's still a Brian and Justin story, and their spirits and essence are still in there, I also don't get taking the stories away from the fandom. /shrug. I think I might be the only one that feels this way about all this.
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Date: 2011-05-18 01:31 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-18 04:56 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-18 05:10 pm (UTC)I have friends that do write fanfic to better hone their writing skills, but they have never taken an idea from fanfic and then transferred it to their published works.
Would that not affect the credibility of the author if someone comes up going, "Hey I remember this story only it was about blank and blank instead..."
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Date: 2011-05-18 05:22 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-18 05:25 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-18 05:40 pm (UTC)So when people do abuse it in this way it sort of saddens me because it's as though they took my line of defense against those so appalled by fanfic in general and shot holes in it because they are doing to the very thing that those accuse fanfic writers of doing: making a story that does not resemble anything remotely familiar to the point you can substitute any name in the story, still read, and never know the difference.
not starting wank just asking real questions.
Date: 2011-05-18 05:51 pm (UTC)Also isn't it sort of cheating a bit considering you are starting with characters that are already fully formed by someone else? That merely putting them into different situations and giving them new names does that make them your characters now? So many grey areas and I never see this talked about.
Re: not starting wank just asking real questions.
Date: 2011-05-18 06:16 pm (UTC)As far as the ones I know that use fanfic to better hone their craft is to see if they can make believable stories that others would read, what style do most people prefer, etc. Also, when a writer allows readers to provide "actual feedback" instead of "OMG I <3 THIS!" or "YOU ROCK!" then they can learn from their work. However, there are many that will not allow this no matter how nicely critique is given. I've been guilty of the massive PWP after laying a good foundation and had to have someone point out that the story wasn't really "going anywhere". Did I shut down shop? No...I went back, read it and went, "Wow...how did they not die of dehydration because one can't survive on body fluids alone!" And that was a NICE comment, I've had plenty of flames over the years. :)
On style, you think about it each book has it's own "style" of writing and some people tend to lean towards one style more than others. It's trying to gauge what you find comfortable writing in and making a healthy balance. Maybe I'm not explaining it correctly and I wish I could bring up two titles of books that have vastly different writing styles off the top of my head but I'm drawing a blank. Maybe I can go into more detail later in my journal when I have something to show for it. Each writer has their own way of writing and after a while if you are familiar with their work you can easily spot them out when they choose to do anon fanfic memes. I used to be pretty good at it in other fandoms to the point where I had every author pegged as soon as it opened. Now...not so much because in QAF I came into a fandom that had so many stories already completed by authors that are not currently involved. But again they are learning to better their writing not taking what they have given fandom and using it for monetary gain. They write new stories and have an improved attitude that they can do it, they know if they drag on with descriptions it can bore the reader, etc.
But like you I agree, taking fanfic that people have read, commented on and THEN turning it into a published work by changing names is bad form. However, I also understand that many fanfic authors do this a lot and it saddens me because there are some that if they really worked at it they could write their own work without having to rehash something they wrote previously.
Personally, I'm against hiding fanfic away even in f-locked journals. Yes, I have a separate fanfic journal that I do not associate with my this journal because I don't want someone to hold the fact I may have an opinion that vastly differs from their own against my work. I've seen people that avoid writers/fanfic because they had a disagreement with them. They may have had different views on window furnishings. I feel that when you shut people out or pick and chose who can read your works you are losing out. If you only receive comments that are positive when there could be problems with your story does that help you better yourself as a writer? Especially when your readers are scared they will be kicked out forever if they dare make a comment that isn't 100% praiseworthy? I understand that some people are just wanting to avoid flames in general but again when you make your audience afraid to be honest with you...I think you lose a lot more in the end. No one said you had to keep the flames...you could always screen the comments and leave those out. *shrugs*
Re: not starting wank just asking real questions.
Date: 2011-05-20 11:13 am (UTC)While I agree with some of this, I have to tell you that sometimes flames and attacks get so bad, you f-lock your story and journal because you get just so tired and sick of all this shit, and writing should be fun (especially if it's done without any monetary gain), and not dealing with those things.
I admit that I'm one of those who f-locked their journal because of that. And yes, maybe I'm missing out on readers. I haven't kicked anyone from my f-list for giving honest, constructive feedback. And not even if our opinions differ. But I expect a certain amount of courtesy when discussing things and to ensure that, I locked my journal and haven't regretted it yet. Everyone who wants to join, is welcome. :)
Oh - and to make that perfectly clear, the flames I received were never about my fanfic. Unfortunately they were on a more pesonal level and were along the lines of "you dirty fag" or "you gay asshole" - so, really, this is my journal and I'm not taking stuff like in a lj that I wouldn't take in RL either.
Re: not starting wank just asking real questions.
Date: 2011-05-20 12:39 pm (UTC)I was blacklisted in that fandom, banned from many communities, anytime my writing was posted I got misc hateful comments that had nothing to do with my work. I eventually posted from another journal I had and suddenly I was "the most awesomest person evar!" =/ So I kept it separate and there's nothing personal there. It's all public and yes, there's times I still get flames especially on older pieces that even I'm scared to read now because I know now that I can do better...but I'm not going to remove those old pieces either. Maybe I can deal better with the flames there because they don't actually know me only my writing. *shrugs* I've seen my share of nasty comments there but maybe it's harder for those that "open" themselves to their readers by not only giving them glimpses of their work, but their personal lives so they take it harder when people say negative things.
However, if I'm understanding your comment right, you aren't dissuading people from adding you, reading your fic, and maybe possibly eventually coming to you with something that bothers them. Personally, I don't know anything you've done. I think my issue with f-locked fanfic journals is when the writer picks and chooses their readers based on feedback. There's so many that won't take anything that isn't 100% positive and will pick and chose their readers by those that offer only praise and those that dare to say anything else...well out they go...regardless of how it's stated.
Re: not starting wank just asking real questions.
Date: 2011-05-20 01:13 pm (UTC)See - I wouldn't even mind flames were they just related to the fics or original stories I write. I get that Brian/other isn't everybody's taste, so yeah, people have told me "no, I can't read a story like that" - and that's okay. However, when people get downright insulting on a personal level, when you get hate mail and things like that, I think it's way off and I'm just too tried to deal with this in lj, too.
Re: not starting wank just asking real questions.
Date: 2011-05-21 08:19 pm (UTC)Unfortunately they were on a more personal level and were along the lines of "you dirty fag" or "you gay asshole"
Good lord, someone actually said that to you? O.o
Re: not starting wank just asking real questions.
Date: 2011-05-21 08:26 pm (UTC)Re: not starting wank just asking real questions.
Date: 2011-05-21 08:41 pm (UTC)I know that we're all pretty passionate people, and our feelings get the best of us, and the easiest thing to do is to revert to name-calling. I've been called a bitch so much that I just laid claim to it and say "yeah I am", you know? But there are lines and limits, and unfortunately, people cross them. All I know is, if someone called my daughter a fucking dyke, whether or not she uses the term herself, I'd be out kicking ass.
The interesting thing is, I grew up with black people calling each other the N word as a term or endearment or a way of greeting. It was pretty much reclaiming a word that was used negatively towards them. Same as I hear gay men use the F word. But then, we get pissed when someone else calls us that, someone that's "other". What I did was drop the N word from my vernacular when I was a teen, and I don't use it, don't like it, don't want it used around me. I would assume you feel the same.
Re: not starting wank just asking real questions.
Date: 2011-05-22 07:14 pm (UTC)Sorry for the scare, I may be opinionated but I try hard to talk reasonably with others. (As noted below when I said that
Edited because I can't type.
Re: not starting wank just asking real questions.
Date: 2011-05-23 04:15 am (UTC)We're all of us opinionated to a certain degree. We can get heated when we feel we're being misunderstood. But as long as everyone is being respectful, I'm good with it.
Trust me, I never used to screencap anything, but I've learned that sometimes it can cave your ass. lol
no subject
Date: 2011-05-18 06:05 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-18 06:17 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-18 07:20 pm (UTC)I can see RPF possibly making the transition, IF it was very much AU to begin with. Preferably more so than this (http://www.amazon.com/Mastering-Toby-Jan-Irving/dp/1615813640/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1305745917&sr=8-1).
I don't know. Taking fics from fandom (and moreso, from the characters - I'm a dork) always makes me sad panda.
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Date: 2011-05-18 11:32 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-21 08:23 pm (UTC)If you want to turn your fanfic into publishable fic, go for it. But at least make it different enough that the reader feels they're reading something new, you know, like same verse, different circumstances or something.
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Date: 2011-05-19 12:37 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-18 06:38 pm (UTC)I buy the books to support the authors as a) they are very good writers, and b) I want them to continue writing. What you tend to find is once a fan fic writer has moved over to original fic they no longer write anything in fandom, so if you want to continue to read stories written by them you buy the books.
For me its just the same as reading books by other authors who didn't start in fan fic, its no different.
no subject
Date: 2011-05-18 08:49 pm (UTC)Let's say I've written an essay for one of my classes and turned it in to my professor. She then provides me not only a grade, but suggestions on how to correct my grammatical errors and overall improve the essay in general. Next semester when I need to turn in essays for my new class (which has similar topics) do I then rehash that previous essay? Do I take what that another professor has shown me, correct the mistakes, and turn it in again because this new professor has never read it before?
Does that sort of make sense why I think it's unfair to take fanfic that has been online however long, yank it off, change a few names, then make money off of it? I wouldn't make money from rehashing an already graded essay, but I'm cheating not only myself but my professor by not putting the work into the class and just reusing material I've already done before. Maybe my work ethic varies from others...who knows.
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Date: 2011-05-18 09:08 pm (UTC)I have, and continue to beta both fan fic and original stories, even though I edit and give advice, it's still the authors creation.
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Date: 2011-05-18 09:18 pm (UTC)I came late to the party in QAF so her fanfics were already gone, a while back when I was asking about one I heard of someone linked me to the website but then I was informed that it was the same story just new names. I suppose the idea that it was so easily able to be changed from Brian/Justin fanfic to Greg/Steve, Mike/Sam, or whatever name combination you prefer was my turn off point. *shrugs* Again different strokes for different folks. :)
Edit: Typo!
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Date: 2011-05-18 09:38 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-18 11:47 pm (UTC)I've known many authors over the years that write both fanfic for fun and then publish their own books. I've also known many that don't want their published name connected with their Livejournal account as well and understand their need for that separation.
I think it's like
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Date: 2011-05-19 12:19 am (UTC)Thank you ipitydaf00l
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Date: 2011-05-27 06:19 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-31 12:36 am (UTC)I remember MsScribe along with many others even some from fandoms that I wasn't a part of. (I used to have a group of friends that were very dedicated to any fandom_wank to be had because it was like TV to them.)
I think it's what surprises me about people that have been in a fandom for any length of time. Those that act as though they are shocked that places like fanfic_rants and fandom_wank exist. Others that feel that if they simply delete comments that makes things go away and they don't have to apologize for their behavior because "it's not there anymore". Nope, as many have discovered the hard way that you have to be willing to stand by anything you do say comment wise. It's why I don't use anon comments, except in rare cases. (Those anon writing memes for example...even then I've screwed up and forgot to change it to anon at times.)
I may have to apologize later to some people, but most of the time I rarely get ugly or hateful unless they have given me a valid reason to. Mostly being ugly or hateful to me first. Granted in my last "fight", Laurie chose not to say those things to me, just about me in various journals that I was friend's with at the time. Sure those comments are deleted now...but that's the beauty of screencaps. :)
The really hilarious thing was she wanted me to keep her on my f-list and give her the names of people sending me PMs of all her entries, etc. Um...she can deal with the trolls on her f-list herself, it's not my problem, especially not after everything that has been said to me because of her threatening to "run aways forevers!"
Sorry, I can't think of wank type things without thinking about that mess at the moment.
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Date: 2011-05-31 05:07 pm (UTC)Man, that MsScribe/CC wank was...brilliant. I couldn't believe the things that were said and done. This was my reason for going to F_W in the first place. Those that do not remember the past...etc. And yeah, I don't get how people don't understand or are all shocked and shaken when the mention of other wank journals comes up. They were here before I found LJ, they'll be here when I'm gone. I hate anon comms, it's just a place for people to be bitchy. And yeah, I've called out a few people on their shit in a few, different fandom, tho.
The thing with me is, I'm cool until someone pisses me off, then I blow without taking a breath. If I learned anything from the last time, it's that some people cannot be reasoned with. They will say and think what they want without looking at all sides of the issue, and they will think what they want of you, and nothing you say will change that. I learned, in essence, when to walk away. Sometimes, letting the other person rant and rave only makes them look stupid. Besides, life is way too short, and I have other, real life things to worry about.
Weeping Cock, tho...have you been there? OMG, the stuff they post, it's like (Any) Fandom's Guide To Bad Sex. I've seen stuff that is anatomically impossible, even in the anime fandoms! And the epithets for body parts!! *dies* "Man pussy" is still the one that makes me wanna hurl and die laughing at once. You MUST go there, if for no other reason than to cheer you up when you're feeling blue. One post will have you spitting liquids at your screen.
no subject
Date: 2011-05-31 05:34 pm (UTC)I remember when they were on LJ before they were closed down and transferred to their new home. I've been on LJ for a decade now....and so when someone goes 'OMG PEOPLE DO THAT??', I find myself thinking, "Seriously? How the hell did you not know about this?!? How could you not have ever heard of it!?"
I think I react the same way as you, and in that situation several of my buttons were continually pushed.
I'm not sure if I've been to Weeping Cock...I've heard of it, but personally never gone. I had to stop myself when I made a post about the Original/Fanfic discussion when one of my friends asked if I remembered the stories that authors tried to change Het!fic into slash!fic but they forgot to change pronouns or sexual organs. D: I almost went off onto my tangent of when I'm reading sex scenes and have moments where a really hot scene goes to hell because I'm still sort of stuck with "they just put what into what?!?!?" I know I read in a book somewhere that flowery prose was more favorable for women that purchase romance novels but I'd rather see cock than man meat, joystick, tab A and well, you get the idea. ;)
I still wish I could find where I saved those icons, though I admit that they are easily seven or eight years old, but they are similar to this one, but had lists:
1.) Pointy sticks make excellent dildos!
2.) Lube is for sissies!
3.) Condoms are for balloon animals, yes?
and they went on...makes me sad I can't find them because I've seen a lot of stuff during my fandom years...and have been guilty of some things too. D: If I said I wasn't at some point that would be lying. I'm sure I wrote many cliche fanfic and there's some I won't read now because wow...I had no idea what Sue!fic was in my teen years.
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Date: 2011-05-20 11:25 am (UTC)I agree that there ARE fanfics turned into original work, like "Zero to the Bone" that are very good, but in that case the fanfic was already AU/AU and that certainly makes a difference. However, I don't like it - and you won't convince me otherwise. It's just plain bad form to do it. If the writer is really that good, then he or she won't have a problem producing something really original and have success with it, just like Sarah Rees Brennan proved it in the HP fandom.
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Date: 2011-05-20 12:54 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-20 01:17 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-20 01:42 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-18 09:02 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-18 09:53 pm (UTC)