Justin is a country club brat - canon/fandom?

[cowboystracker.livejournal.com]

I know a lot of fanfic states that Justin grew up in the country club set like Lindsay. But I don't remember that from the series, so is it canon or fandom? I remember Lindsay's parents as being quite wealthy so it makes sense that they would be country club members. But I never got that impression of Justin's family. It seemed they were more middle class or upper middle class. Now I know that doesn't mean they couldn't belong to a country club, but it just seems unlikely.

If it is canon, please let me know what episode. I need this for a fic I'm writing at the moment.

Thanks for any help. As always it is greatly appreciated.

ETA: It is canon. I completely forgot about Justin's conversation with Melanie at Michael's 30th b-day party in episode 111. The brief conversation is in the comments - thanks mander3_swish. And thanks to michele659, qaf_fanatic, and mysid for the help.

Comments

[court1429.livejournal.com]

Someone who's actually rewatched the scene, please tell me that's a transcription typo and that the line is really that he was part of the "genteel" country club set, not the "gentile" country club set. America has a history of bigotry and exclusion in many different clubs whether business or social. But this is not the first time I've read "gentile," and I finally had to ask.

[mander3-swish.livejournal.com]

oh my goodness...that transcript site has such BAD typos (and bad on me for not confirming the quote before posting)...i'm sure it's supposed to read genteel...I'll pop in 111 when i get home from work (as I can't find that part on youtube)

[court1429.livejournal.com]

I'm sure it is, too, but I've read "gentile" in quite a few (probably bad) fics, and now to see it as part of a transcript, well, I had to double check. ;)

[cowboystracker.livejournal.com]

Okay, I just watched this scene and Justin actually says 'gentile' not 'genteel' so it's not a typo. This could just be his way of knocking the country club set's attitude toward people they see as different from them or beneath them.

[court1429.livejournal.com]

Yeah, maybe. I dunno. That's possibly the only way to explain it, but I can't imagine Justin saying that to a friend, especially someone who is his "elder," and whom he doesn't know all that well, and who he knows is Jewish. (let alone Randy Harrison agreeing to say it.) There's no set-up in the scene that makes that a rational line.

Thanks for the first-hand report, though! ;)

[cowboystracker.livejournal.com]

You're very welcome for the first-hand report and I completely agree with you. What made me think he was saying it as a 'put down' so to speak was the way he said it, sort of like he was making fun of them.

[court1429.livejournal.com]

Ahh, could be. And could be if the delivery was that way, it's possible he just misspoke the line even though he strikes me as a much more careful and aware actor than that and one would think *someone's* ear on that set would've heard and questioned it if it was an error. Now this would be a worthwhile question for those con Q&As! ;)

Damn! Run-on sentence much? I even had to change my icon. I am more of the "never met a comma I didn't like" camp than the "comma? What are those for?" set. ;D

[mander3-swish.livejournal.com]

omg your icon! :) I just posted this related music note link i found to my journal the other day: http://lolsnaps.com/news/2534/0/

[cowboystracker.livejournal.com]

ROFLMAO! That is great! That would inspire anyone to learn to read music!

[court1429.livejournal.com]

HA! That's awesome! Gives a whole different meaning to "blowing eight to the bar," doesn't it? ;DD

[cowboystracker.livejournal.com]

OMG! LMAO! I love your icon!!!

[sodoesrachael.livejournal.com]

Same here about the commas. ;)

[mysid.livejournal.com]

I think "gentile" makes sense in this scene given that Justin is speaking to Mel, who is Jewish, and obviously making a comparison between himself and Lindsay, Mel's gentile upper-middle class partner. With one line, he's successfully calling up all the times Ron and Nancy Peterson have ever looked down their noses at Melanie and comparing his parents and their "set" to the Petersons. Yes, I think "gentile" is very deliberately used instead of the more common "genteel".

[court1429.livejournal.com]

Interesting approach. I still think it's an odd choice, but I see what you're saying.

[(Anonymous)]

Actually, as a Jewish person who grew up in the "Jewish country club set", that comment makes total sense to me from Justin. I don't think he was being rude at all. It's just that he'd know - from his background - that the old joke is that the difference between a Jewish country club and a gentile one is the bar tab. In other words, the gentiles drink at their clubs; the Jews don't, well, not much anyway. And nobody learns drink mixing at a Jewish country club.

And, yes, there are still distinctions in the clubs. Most of the time they're not formal anymore, because that would be illegal. But most of the Jewish clubs were founded because Jewish people couldn't gain entry to the gentile clubs, so they founded their own. And because country clubs bring out the worst of the snobby, cliquish nature in people, they're stuck. There are still "clubs for the yids and clubs for the goyim" as my father used to say.

So basically Justin is using in-speak with Melanie. He's saying in one throwaway comment that he knows Mel is Jewish, that he knows she's familiar with Lindsay's background, and that he knows she'll get the joke, so to speak. He wasn't being offensive or putting her down at all, at least not as far as I read the scene.

Side note: CowLip are Jewish, AFAIK. So I very much doubt they would have written the scene to be offensive.

[alfred004.livejournal.com]

I think, without doubt, you are right. Thanks for your explanation. It definitely makes sence.

[court1429.livejournal.com]

Thanks for your input on this. The comments discussion has been interesting and informative! ;)

[mander3-swish.livejournal.com]

hmmm...interesting...that makes sense.

[gaedhal.livejournal.com]

He says "gentile."