Justin is a country club brat - canon/fandom?

[cowboystracker.livejournal.com]

I know a lot of fanfic states that Justin grew up in the country club set like Lindsay. But I don't remember that from the series, so is it canon or fandom? I remember Lindsay's parents as being quite wealthy so it makes sense that they would be country club members. But I never got that impression of Justin's family. It seemed they were more middle class or upper middle class. Now I know that doesn't mean they couldn't belong to a country club, but it just seems unlikely.

If it is canon, please let me know what episode. I need this for a fic I'm writing at the moment.

Thanks for any help. As always it is greatly appreciated.

ETA: It is canon. I completely forgot about Justin's conversation with Melanie at Michael's 30th b-day party in episode 111. The brief conversation is in the comments - thanks mander3_swish. And thanks to michele659, qaf_fanatic, and mysid for the help.

Comments

[mander3-swish.livejournal.com]

yup, that's where...111...the following is from http://www.twiztv.com/scripts/queerasfolk/season1/qaf-111.htm
[At the bar.]
Mel: Margarita, no salt.
Justin: Right up.
Mel: Hey, how do you know how to mix drinks?
Justin: I'm from the gentile country-club set.

Plus in 109 he's 'helping' the Ted & Em with their table setting etiquette lessons for Michael.

[qaf-fanatic.livejournal.com]

Yup. I agree with this.

[mysid.livejournal.com]

All of which doesn't necessarily mean that his parents actually belonged to a country club. Whether or not they bothered to join one probably has more to do with their interest--or lack thereof--in playing golf.

But by telling Mel that he grew up as part of the "gentile country-club set," Justin is saying that he had the same upper-middle upbringing that Lindsay did. Similar neighborhoods, similar cocktail parties, etc.

As for his family's money, both the very nice house they lived in, and the very expensive school he attended, establish the Taylors as very comfortably upper-middle class, ie "the country-club set".

[vlredreign.livejournal.com]

I don't think he would have used that particular analogy if it weren't true. And really, not every family teaches that type of table etiquette. Usually, there are three utensils on the table: knife, fork and spoon. Justin knew the types of things that they taught you in etiquette classes. Plus, Craig was a business owner, and as such, had a good reason to belong to a country club. He probably played golf with other businessmen...therefore, safe to assume.

[mysid.livejournal.com]

I have to disagree. I was raised upper-middle class, I learned all the same etiquette rules that Justin rattles off, and I went to a private high school. Could I have called myself part of the "country club set"? My parents had friends who belonged to country clubs. Some of my classmates had parents who belonged to country clubs. People who belonged to country clubs were part of the world I grew up in. So, yes.

But, did my parents belong to a country club? No, because neither played golf. My dad was a business owner for my teen years, and if he wanted to socialize with people he did business with, he had plenty of other ways to do it instead of golf.

Did Craig belong to a country club? It's highly likely. Is it certain? No.

And when you factor in the fact that at this moment, Justin is feeling--justifiably-- just a bit antagonistic to his parents, his classmates, and in deed the entire upper-middle class milieu right now, his "gentile country-club set" comment is probably meant to be seen as an acerbic put-down of his entire upbringing rather than a factual statement of having belonged to a country club.

But, that's just how I see it; your mileage may vary.

[vlredreign.livejournal.com]

There are just too many things that point to that being true, though. Exclusive neighborhood, schools...and think about this: how many people in PITTSBURGH have in ground pools? Really? It's something that is commonplace in the warmer states, like Texas, CA and hell, everyone in Phoenix, AZ. But Pittsburgh? That smacks of money to me. Craig is a person that is all about appearances. Jennifer was a stay at home mom when we first meet her. The year is 2000/2001. I can probably count on one hand the number of women that were stay at home moms during that time.

Some have argued why Justin didn't have a car if his parents had money. My thought is that Craig said no. Craig was going to pay for Justin's schooling. Out of pocket. Not loans...out of pocket. That says money. Does all that say that Justin was a country club kid? Added together, I'd say it's pretty compelling. And again, consider Craig. Not Justin, not Jen...Craig. Appearance is everything. He has a perfect wife, perfect daughter, perfect son. Men like that want to show them off. What better way to do that?

[mysid.livejournal.com]

You appear-- to me-- to be arguing whether the Taylors are "upper-middle class" (as I'm calling it) or "have money". To me, "upper-middle class" = "have money". They have enough money to have a large house with a pool (although I thought the pool was Daphne's house), to send their children to private school, for Jennifer to be a SAHM, and to not qualify for college need-based scholarships. All of those things would be true if they are upper-middle class. The category "upper-middle class" can actually go up pretty high in terms of income.

As for whether or not they belong to a country club, I have to say again, it all comes down to whether or not they play golf. There's no point in joining a golf club, which is what almost all country clubs are, if you don't play.

[vlredreign.livejournal.com]

No, I'm not. They have money, that's a given. They're upper middle class, that's a given. What I'm trying to tell you is that with all that, the most important thing to Craig is appearances. To keep up those appearances, he almost surely belongs to a country club. It's what people do.

Also, not everyone that plays golf belongs to a country club. I had bosses that played, and only one belonged to a country club. The others just went to the local courses to play.

[mysid.livejournal.com]

I know that not everyone who plays golf joins a country club-- public courses exist for a reason-- but I do think it's incredibly rare to join a country club if one doesn't play golf. Golf, not keeping up appearances, is the primary reason people join a country club. There are hundreds of ways to "keep up appearances" to choose from, and joining a country club is only one of them.