getithere | fic discussion communities or fanfic "book club"?

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fandom: general inquiries or trivia

fic discussion communities or fanfic "book club"?

Are there any discussion communities where folks discuss individual fanfic or groups/genres.
Not necessarily a rec site or critique, per se, but rather a discussion about what goes on in a story what the author might have meant, themes, whether a story goes too far.

FWIW, I don't consider this something for coffeeclub - any time I've attempted to discuss a particular fic or author, the discussion has been shut down.

I'm imagining something more along the line of marathons or a book club where everyone reads a fic then discusses the fic. Come to think of it, there used to be something like this, but it was rather structured, I'm looking for something less structured where someone might start a thread and others pick up the conversation.

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That actually sounds very interesting. If you can't find something like that, I'd be interested in co-hosting such a site with you or who ever else would be interested, provided somebody would make us a really cool banner ;)

(deleted comment)

Agreed.

The HORS used to do this pretty extensively, but that
was a while ago. I know because Madam used to send me
reams of their commentary -- most of it, um, ranting!
LOL!

I'd be interested in such a group! :) You'd just have to have some good mods who are on top of it... there's a fine line between bashing and critique, and not all authors want to hear anything bad about their fics.

Oh, that would be really cool! I've seen something similar to this for other fandoms. I'm kind of new to QAF and have often wondered if there was something like this and I had just not found it yet.

perhaps a forum thread in a site that already exists? There is such a members only type thread (meaning nothing anonymous allowed) in another fandom I belong to that is solely for fanfic recs and discussions. Often, the writers discussed are members and appreciate the feedback and chance to explain their fics. The mod(s) are very diligent and while discussions can get heated over a particular theme, flaming is dealt with quickly.

I don't know of anything like that existing in the qaf world presently, but I would participate.

The best way for this to work is to not have the author involved at all, or only to give permission to use the fic. That way the stories can be seriously discussed as literature without the pressure of only being able to make positive remarks.

The library book club I once belonged to used published fiction with no author present. I don't like the "Oprah" model where the author is right there listening to every word. No wonder all comments were always blandly positive.

I agree that comments shouldn't be downright nasty, but we should feel comfortable questioning motive and character development within the story.

The best way for this to work is to not have the author involved at all, or only to give permission to use the fic.

That's a little tough since I think most writers are also readers anymore.

In the forum I mentioned I have seen it working with the writers involved for almost three years now, and it is not a "Your fic is just awesome!" type of place. It is also a much smaller fandom then qaf, so perhaps that is why it works.

Some writers have asked that their fics not be discussed, but to my knowledge only a handful have done so, and most have moved on from the fandom.

I made a community for this a while ago but didn't pimp or post it because I was afraid the the wank it could start. I could revive it and we could start doing it if you would like. I thought it would be awesome but the rules would have to be fairly clear I would think.

http://community.livejournal.com/qaffictalk/

I beefed up the profile page a bit and will be adding more to it over the weekend. I want this to be a great place. Posting access will be for everyone until it needs to be moderated but I hoping that people can be adults and just enjoy talking about the fic.

This sounds like a wonderful idea. I've friended.

How bizarre. I thought that was the whole point of

qaf_coffeeclub. According to its profile it certainly is.

actually, the original intent of coffee club was for writers to discuss their writing -- plotting, character development, story lines, etc in an active manner as they are currently planning for or are actively writing.

However, I have been slammed down on so many occasions for any topic introduced that I have just basically abandoned participation.

If you talk about a writer or a topic that mods don't care for you are basically told that it is their football and their game. I have been told more than once that I am welcome to go out and start my own group if I don't like it and don't adhere to their rules. I've had things that I've posted taken down, being told that such discussions don't belong here. I made the big mistake about trying to introduce a discussion regarding the fandom and it's future and was slammed on two sides.

I've given up.

Edited 2010-01-06 23:38 (UTC)

Odd. Sorry you had such a bad experience there.

I always mean to participate there, because the topics are usually of interest to me, but often don't simply because they tend to be long discussions I just don't have time for.

I can't take the time for extensive fic discussions at this point, or even any reading, but I look forward to seeing what comes of your inquiry.

I only ever saw Bunny come into one of your posts, and that was to ask about taking down a link. The issue with some fic discussion, and it's gonna happen no matter where you go, is that it can, and has, dissolved into wank. And that is not something that a mod wants to deal with.

I appreciate the difficulty of being a moderator - and I'm all for championing their hard work.

I'm going off line to answer the rest - it isn't appropriate for this forum nor does it need to clog up this post.

I think that would be fun-provided the author gives permission and there's actual discussion of the fic,instead of a lot of people trying to out snark each other and the story.
I'd definitely say let it be moderated closely to avoid the discussion crossing the line from discussion to flaming.
And it should be open to all pairings or genres. If someone doesn't like a character,pairing or genre they don't have to participate in the discussion. Or,they could participate in it without it descending into character or story bashing.
I'd like to participate in something like that,thanks for the suggestion!

Edited 2010-01-07 00:40 (UTC)

I agree with all your saying with the exception of asking the authors permission. It would be very difficult to ask a lot of the authors first of all since a lot of the fic that will be discuss are most likely going to be old or from authors that have moved on. and Second in a book club you don't call up JK Rowling or Dan Brown and ask if it's ok to read the books.

I don't think the goal is to flame and I would be very on anyone that is just bashing for bashing sakes. We are adults and should be able to be mature about things.

as an author, I am totally open to people discussing what I write.

If they don't like it or if it isn't their cup of tea so be it - and if they can provide a logical argument to support their opinion I don't mind seeing it.

For example, I have a lot of trouble with Brian and Justin in Het relationships, in general things that are overly/way OOC tend to offend me.

But I can say, it's just not me and I don't like it.

Also, there are times when I read something that I think is OOC, and I don't mind debating what I see as OOC that you may not see as OOC. That isn't story bashing.

However, just plain bad!fic - that hasn't been beta'd, that hasn't been spellchecked, that is obviously written by someone who hasn't watched the show - sorry, that's fair game.

But I digress.

I would like to think that after someone has written into

getithere to find a particular fic, and a bunch of folks who haven't read that fic go oh! I'd like to read that, there would be a place to go and discuss the fic.

For instance, something led me down the path to an author who just wrote her first fic. As a first attempt is was quite good - good characterization, stayed in character, but a couple of classic mistakes. Things like mis-spellings for things that were local to Pittsburgh. Justin saying "Mum" instead of "Mom", that sort of thing.

If done right, the discussion (rather than critique) community could be one that provides what I have been looking for, good, well written, new authors and new fics. Yes, I love the classics and read those fics over and over again, but I can't see a fandom surviving if there isn't anything new to read.

BTW, I'm not looking for a place full of gushing "the story is wonderful" and full of "me too's". More, I read this fic and I liked it. I like the way this was handled, I didn't like this, but I can see where the author was going with it...

that sort of thing

just my $.02

This is what I want our group to be! A real place to go to and talk about fic in a way that doesn't have to be all gushy. I have wanted that for a very long time. It's one of the reasons I wanted to start the group in the first place. Like there are tons of fics out there that should be talked about because they are so dense, and so meaty that you just want to appreciate that and really get into it. There are fics that have been written that deserve to be discussed. Not just on the author LJ or Yahoo group because like you said that get to be sort of a rah rah session or something. Not that those don't have their place but you know what I mean.

This is so what we are going to do.

I wouldn't want a story that was really poorly done to be a part of a discussion group. I think that's why people read things like "badfic quotes".I don't mean everyone has to like the story,or that everyone needs to think it was well written. I would,however, like to see people suggest stories that everyone reading would want to discuss for the content,not because they were appalled by the quality,jmo.
Oh,and I definitely agree that it should be a mixture of old and new stories and writers.Finding and discussing new authors and stories is important to keep the fandom from stagnating.

playing devil's advocate here - I've seen people wax poetic for fics that I have viewed as being poorly written, plotted or characterized. Beauty (and bad!fic) is in the eye of the beholder.

LOL-that's true! I've seen the same thing. What I meant was that the person suggesting a fic for discussion not pick it because he or she thinks it's poorly written(and/or has bad grammar)and so would be good to make fun of. It doesn't have to mean that the person who brings it up has to love it,just not pick it so everyone can spork it.
Also,there are certain stories I read that I like,but I still question some parts of the characterization or plot. I have nothing against a critque of a story. I think that's what makes a discussion interesting.

It's funny, I guess I got this idea of a discussion group in my head because I would like a place to go and say "I just finished reading this fic and..."

Kind of what's on your nightstand today. And others could join in and say - yeah I read that, what was up with that crazy interlude with the tv show?

Basically, what I'm reading...

Then if tagged properly, people could go and find various discussions on certain fics.

Red and Court have done an amazing job tagging entries here and it is really helpful in finding things.

if you keep the discussion about charector and plotline you can avoid the fight of whether a fic is good or bad .the reason people have the disagreement as to do with the fact that some writers and readers have never watched the show.anyways i hope this happen,sounds really good.

the reason people have the disagreement as to do with the fact that some writers and readers have never watched the show

*shakes head and wonky rattling noise occurs*

WTF?! I can understand that some readers have never seen the show if they live outside of the areas where the show widely broadcast.

HOWEVER, how can one write fanfic about a TV show having never seen it?

It boggles the mind... that's... that's... that's just so wrong in so many ways!?

Well,we can't call famous authors to ask permission,but current writers on lj are accessible.Also, a published writer is used to having their work critiqued. A new or insecure writer is most likely not to view it the same way. It's different, I think with authors who are no longer around or who have left the fandom then it is for those who are still around. Those who are no longer writing for the fandom or who aren't on lj anymore probably wouldn't know or care one way or the other.
I would like to think that everyone would be mature about it,but I've seen some unfortunate things on lj that make me wonder sometimes. I'm all for stopping anyone who starts flaming right away.

First of all, netlagd, I don't agree that you've been "shut down" when you tried to discuss fic at coffeeclub. Fic is often discussed there -- don't you remember the many months-long book club discussions? You ran one of the discussions yourself!

As to the idea of a fic discussion community, I find that there's nothing wrong with wanting to talk about fics. Fans do it all the time, often in locked posts among a small group of friends. But there's also nothing wrong with realizing that some authors don't want their fic discussed, and it's understandable that some get their feelings hurt even when people are not trying to flame them.

Personally, I don't like to participate in discussions of my fiction because it makes me too self-conscious about my writing process. Other writers love it -- several participated in the coffeeclub book club discussions.

In theory, a fic critique community is a great idea. In practice, it's hard to make it work, especially in a small fandom like QAF. Fic critique so often turns into either nothing but mild mannered praise, or a wankfest. It's one of the reasons qaf_crackfic became so quiet, because some writers were very upset to have their fic characterized as 'crack,' even when the "addictive" definition was expressly being used.

Where I stand is that if people wanted to discuss my fiction, I would never become a prima donna and stamp my foot and scream about it. When communities let authors opt out, I always do. If they don't, I just put on my big girl panties and steer clear of the discussion if one of my stories comes up. We all do what we gotta do. :)

Xie

First of all, netlagd, I don't agree that you've been "shut down" when you tried to discuss fic at coffeeclub. Fic is often discussed there -- don't you remember the many months-long book club discussions? You ran one of the discussions yourself!

I will amend my comment to say that the majority of any time, other than the planned fic discussion rounds - to which the person leading the discussion had to submit the fics and the topic in advance and have it accepted, I have repeatedly been taken to task for the topic I have posted. As such I don't participate any longer.

I'm not looking for a critque group - because my personal opinion is that one person critiques and others either agree or don't.

I'm looking for a discussion group, because I am looking to find new fic.

I make no distinction between fic "discussion" and fic "critique."

"Literary criticism is the study, discussion, evaluation, and interpretation of literature." (Wikipedia)

As you know, because I've told you several times, coffeeclub was never intended to be a place for specfic fic recs. Those are the posts of your's that were deleted. Throwing up a link to a fic and posing questions about that fic are not allowed for many reasons, some which have been discussed in this thread.

Posts generating discussions about general themes, charactorization, etc have always been welcome despite some of the problems they've caused.

Bunny

Can we get back on topic, folks?

The topic, for those who have forgotten, is are there any fic discussion posts.

Hm, I only know comms like

qaf_badfic or

_bestoftheworst, but I bet that's not exactley what you're looking for, hm? ^^;
(and sadly they're kinda dead anyway *sighs* )

no, not what I am looking for, but fun to look at nonetheless

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fic discussion communities or fanfic "book club"?

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